disable blue border around note tabs in 9.10.5

[Shron85]

+1 Needs to go back to the drawing board. IMO you should get rid of all the boarders except for the bottom, and then make it a +50 brightness shift of the current tab color, unless the tab color can't go up 50 than it should go down 50 brightness instead, assuming colors are 0-256 and not float format.

[Tester]

I was glad to see this feature. It makes it easier to distinguish the active tab and leaf. Perhaps the method of highlighting should be adjusted, as mentioned in these remarks, but please keep this feature.

I completely agree. I am happy as it is now. An enormous improvement compared with the situation before.

Of course it is a matter of taste. But to my mind for example in this way it looks very nice:

C1.jpg (16.55 KiB) Viewed 1074 times

Indeed in some cases there may arise a problem with missing contrast:

But I have blue and green tabs, where they make hardly a difference.

C2.jpg (25.53 KiB) Viewed 1073 times

And I admit: In dark mode the distinction is also difficult or almost impossible (the only visible distinction are the bold letters of the active tab and that's not sufficient):

C3.jpg (15.04 KiB) Viewed 1072 times

Perhaps in such cases could help an option to choose the color of the border?

[admin]

I personally like what Shron85 has suggested. Let's see if this is the way to go...

[Tester]

I personally like what Shron85 has suggested.

You mean also:

IMO you should get rid of all the boarders except for the bottom

So it would for example look like this? :

C5.jpg (21.08 KiB) Viewed 1063 times

Better than nothing (or as it was before version 9.10.5). But distinction would be worse than with "real" borders.

[MetalDrop]

I'm going to +1 Shron85's idea it's more or less the best tab highlighting I ever see in programs.

It's simple, works well for more than one row of tabs, and is largely color issue safe since it's just a brightness/Lum shift it'll rarely cause any color clashing and should also be safe for people with degrees of color blindness.

Here is a mock up based on a +/- 30 Lum on a scale of 0-100 since it's what my design app works on.

[Keldi]

I'm on the fence about the blue border tab. On one hand, I really can't call it beautiful. On the other hand, I absolutely love how I instantly can see which of the note trees or tab in a note is active. So with some improvement to how it looks, it will be perfect.


But Sticky Notes is another story (see the screenshot in the attachments).
I believe they already had a good enough indicator for the active tab (the missing upper border). I don't believe any change is needed there, even just only for the bottom border as suggested above. The blue border tab with changed background is really-really out of place there, plus there is white on white and black on dark grey text in some cases.

And I've just noticed another small issue that became worse with the new version - Sticky Note's Title Text Colour:
 
     •  EPIM 9.10.1 Light Theme: depends on Sticky Note's colour = all titles look good
     •  EPIM 9.10.1 Dark Theme: always black = on dark background unreadable
     •  EPIM 9.10.5 Light Theme: always black = on dark background unreadable
     •  EPIM 9.10.5 Dark Theme: always white = on light background hard to read

IMHO, exclude Sticky Notes from the new active tab highlighting altogether and change both Light and Dark Themes to what was in EPIM 9.10.1 Light Theme.
 

[Tester]

I'm going to +1 Shron85's idea it's more or less the best tab highlighting I ever see in programs.
[...]
Here is a mock up based on a +/- 30 Lum on a scale of 0-100 since it's what my design app works on.
[...]

Ahhh, I see. Yes that's fine. I did not pay enough attention to Shron85's suggestion concerning shift of the current tab color.
With such a solution for tab highlighting, to my mind not even a border line on the bottom of a tab would be necessary.

I absolutely love how I instantly can see which of the note trees or tab in a note is active.

Me too. Either this is realized with borders or with tab highlighting.

[poet-man]

To be honest, somethimes it is very astonishing, what extreme importance is attached to a minor topic. Not only as to software, but in everyday life.
Of course a NEW feature with optic effects always will get improvements and so manufacturer is glad to get feedback. Some times however, it seems that a comment here and there is overexagerated.
Hey ... it's a blue line only, nothing else.
My opinion

[VictorParkerPIM]

+1 for Poet-Man,
All we need is a no mistakable contrast difference on the selected tab.

[Rose Ford]

To be honest, somethimes it is very astonishing, what extreme importance is attached to a minor topic. Not only as to software, but in everyday life.
Of course a NEW feature with optic effects always will get improvements and so manufacturer is glad to get feedback. Some times however, it seems that a comment here and there is overexagerated.
Hey ... it's a blue line only, nothing else.
My opinion

Aesthetics are important, a new feature that is hidden or hard to see is one thing, you can just ignore it if it isn't useful to you, nor is it a distracting if it's not implemented well. However something that is literally in your face the entire work day is hard to ignore. Especially when it's something that was literally made to demands your attention. To other people visual distractions can be very harsh workflow breakers, some creative people are very sensitive to that.

That said, I'm mainly replying to you to let you know that you have done almost nothing with your posts but belittle others, and the first time you did it could be brushed off as just being awkward about raising your hand to say, "I like this feature", but making a special post to further belittle other peoples opinions is not particularly cool. Make a post to add something meaningful to the discussion on either side, or to ask a friendly question is always cool, both sides should be part of the discussion, and no one should feel awkward about asking questions it's good to learn new things. I'm sure everyone here wants EPIM to be great for as many people as possible and are more then happy to compromise when needed, I know for myself there have been several changes I don't like, but I can see the merit in for other people and work flows, and the changes are just minor meh points myself whereas other people made much more convincing arguments of why the changes should be kept.

Next time perhaps try to not belittle people and if you are astonishing and bewildered by something, maybe just try politely asking, why, or at the very least settle for belittling peoples opinions in a discussion once and then moving on in your life to something more positive.

It is very much worth remembering that every one who commend above you likely got your comment directly to their Email, and some people like myself are waking up and starting my day to reading your comment because I'm subscribed to an otherwise constructive discussion.

[poet-man]

@Rose
So everybody has a opinion. Each equal true or untrue.
No need to deal with any opinion in an unrespectful way.
As to me ... EOT

[S_Belle]

@Rose
So everybody has a opinion. Each equal true or untrue.
No need to deal with any opinion in an unrespectful way.
As to me ... EOT

You are most assuredly being the disrespectful one in this thread.

[Tester]

Personally I cannot see in poet-man's post anything disrespectful or anything that belittles others. And although I participated myself actively in this thread, I would say that he is right when stating:

To be honest, somethimes it is very astonishing, what extreme importance is attached to a minor topic. Not only as to software, but in everyday life.

I think that such "simple" matters - like a (new) color, a (new) line etc. - produce a lot of reactions because they are something that can be judged immediately (at first sight) and easily (without the necessity to deal with the details of a software or whatever it may refer to).

Concerning the principal question, for me a very important role play clear distinctions on the monitor - either on user interfaces or in editors or in boards or whatever. Distinctions (Contrasts) either made by different colors or by highlighting or by lines, borders etc.

Unfortunately this has become completely olf-fashioned since many years and the result are in most of the cases terrible user interfaces where you can see almost only white, perhaps combined with a bright grey, no colors, no clear borders etc. That's not only boring but very tiring for the eyes.

For example the main (perhaps the only) reason why I did not follow "MyInfo" to its version 7 is its completely unacceptable user interface (completely different compared with the one for version 6). On the contrary, EPIM continues to offer an "old-fashioned" (in the best sense!) user interface with clear distinctions. And personally I appreciate this (as every enhancement in this direction, e.g. now for the note tabs).

I could imagine that my point of view represents something like the opposite to Rose Ford's opinion:

However something that is literally in your face the entire work day is hard to ignore. Especially when it's something that was literally made to demands your attention. To other people visual distractions can be very harsh workflow breakers, some creative people are very sensitive to that.

Clear distinctions vs. "minimalistic" user interfaces - this seems to be the crucial point in such discussions like this here, even if it concerns only a simple blue line.

[dream_weaver]

Values fall into the realm of necessary and optional. Due to being experienced by the subject, they often get sluffed off as subjective. Due to overlaps between the necessary and optional values, the tendency is to treat them as all necessary. Thus the human need for food as a necessary value gathers arguments about which foods and dishes are best - where the fact that I objectively enjoy the taste of mushrooms does not mean someone who does not enjoy the flavor is "wrong" because they disagree with me.

Look at the variety of colors available in the world, and the permutations of color combinations just extrapolate from there. While the option to choose each individual nuance of color available might be desired by some, others may place a higher value on the functional elements of the software and regard color preferences as less important in the grand scheme of things. To those who colors rank high in importance may find it baffling when others shrug them off as being an accidental quality to be accepted for what it is.

[S_Belle]

Personally I cannot see in poet-man's post anything disrespectful or anything that belittles others. And although I participated myself actively in this thread, I would say that he is right when stating:

To be honest, somethimes it is very astonishing, what extreme importance is attached to a minor topic. Not only as to software, but in everyday life.
Of course a NEW feature with optic effects always will get improvements and so manufacturer is glad to get feedback. Some times however, it seems that a comment here and there is overexagerated.
Hey ... it's a blue line only, nothing else.
My opinion

The reason this feels, "belittling" is that it's the second post he's made that says the same thing, which more or less "belittles" = diminishes the importance of others points of view based on the point of view that he feels it is "overexagerated".

Wordweb defines belittling as:
Cause to seem less serious; play down.

Well ... you know that saying about taste?

Maybe there could be a nicer optic solution ... or maybe not. Don't really know.

As to me, it looks like something to recognize active tab more easy.

The main point Rose Ford was trying to get across is that both of these post say the same thing and neither of them say it in a very respectful way, because they are both doing little more then trying to diminish the opinions other.

If you remove the lines I underlined his post read much less belittling, and removing them doesn't impact the importance of his opinion, especially given that neither of you seem to be reading this thread if all you get is that it's about a simple blue line. There is clearly a visual issue with a 3 sided border on multi-rowed tabs that people don't like. This isn't even color related, it's the fact that it just looks funky and off-putting to see only three sides bordered on anything but the top row of tabs.

Then there is an opinion that the tab highlighting all together really isn't needed for sticky notes, which I can see merit in this as no other sticky note program I've ever personally used had very dramatic highlighting for tabs, they are generally subtle to avoid taking away from the aesthetic appeal of the sticky notes, which is something a lot of people do care about when it comes to sticky notes sitting on their desktop.

You'll also notice a lot of people aren't even saying "blue line" because it's not actually just a blue, the current system is already dynamic and changes colors, and it can produce some very odd color combinations.

So hopefully you can see how by ignoring all these points going on in the thread by reducing things to a "blue line" you can see why that is belittling.

It also might help you to realize that this is a major visual change for long term note users. EPIM has never had distracting tab highlighting on colored tabs. It has more or less stayed the same low key highlighting since the big UI refresh in version 7 and even before that the below image is what it looked like for a very long time.

Since you changed from your old program to EPIM because of annoying UI changes, perhaps you can understand why some of us old EPIM users might like to keep our UI to our liking by asking to have the option to disable tab highlighting.