Warning in case of identical note titles

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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by admin »

As you can see this is a very controversial feature that shouldn't be introduced the way we planned. Maybe later in some other form.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by Tester »

admin wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:07 am Well, I think the best solution at the moment would be to not change anything related to the feature.
admin wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:48 pm As you can see this is a very controversial feature that shouldn't be introduced the way we planned. Maybe later in some other form.
Surely this feature is not of vital importance for me. But nevertheless your decision is disappointing and I think that it is unfair towards me.

First you assured spontaneously the implementation:
admin wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:54 pm All right, will implement this suggestion in the very nearest future. Thanks!
Then a user requested that it should be made only optional - and you answered:
admin wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:56 pmGot it, thanks.
I assume this meant: "O.k. it will be made optional."

All would have been fine. (Just that Telesto had some minor objections about the practical realization.)

Afterwards I made the big mistake to write the (actually unnecessary) comment:
Tester wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:09 pm [...] a user tells us that he/she prefers not to be warned/informed about possible duplicates because of having a lot of notes with the same name. I can't imagine that this is a common situation for many users.
These two sentences were the reason for various users to tell me that notes with the same name play an important role for them.

Fine. With an option both groups of users could be satisfied (I think).

But for you the last postings were the motivation to drop all what you had assured and to characterize the feature now as "very controversial".

My considerations are:

1. I think a controversial feature is no problem for anyone as long as it is optional. E.g. to check or uncheck a box somewhere in the Settings is something that can be expected from the users of a software. Of course also from myself, in case that the current solution [= no warning about duplicates] would have remained the default setting. In this case absolutely nothing would have changed for the supporters of multiple notes with the same name.

2. Democracy is in general a fine thing - but in connection with development of software it is not so easy to realize:
It's very fine that you (= the team of EPIM) are ready to communicate so carefully with your users and to listen to their comments, suggestions etc. That's by no means something natural (if we look at other software companies) and should be highly appreciated by all of us.

But that four or five people use the software in a different way than I do, does not mean that they represent the majority (or even a big part) of all its users. I think we would not even have heard from them (apart from the first one who referred to the different preferences) if I had not provoked their statements by my own thoughtless comment quoted above (as my "annoying" suggestion would have been implemented anyway only as an option).

So I see no reason to withdraw the implementation of an announced (may I say promised ?) optional feature.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by Telesto »

admin wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:07 am Well, I think the best solution at the moment would be to not change anything related to the feature.

I don't think this should off the table in a whole (but not even sure if that's the actual message). However needs some thinking (arguing) about solution. There are surely number of cases where the request does make sense, IMHO. But also number of cases where this isn't working.

It's more question how to implement this in sensible manner (if possible at all). Dislike many checkboxes with special features for this or for that . The user of defaults - while disabled - likely not using it. And only potential that something like this gets broken of time (depending the number of UI tests and such present in the automatic testing framework (if present).

So personally would hold off for a while, but not totally throwing out the suggestion out of the window. However we can't rush to a solution. And well the current situation has been present for long time (and competition doesn't have similar thing right know). So lets put some idea's forward, evaluate them carefully.

Maybe we conclude this going to work, but dislike quick decisions to yes (white); black (no) approach :P. So talking about black & white thinking. But there is clearly not a straight forward solution to this. Also there still question of size of the demand. I do think there might some. But well the forum has polls :P. So maybe the first question is, how many of will probably use this. If there is enough demand, how to implement it sanely.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by Tester »

Telesto wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:48 pm But there is clearly not a straight forward solution to this. Also there still question of size of the demand. I do think there might some. But well the forum has polls :P. So maybe the first question is, how many of will probably use this. If there is enough demand, how to implement it sanely.
My conclusion (from admin's statements) was that to realize such a feature (plus to make it optional) would be no big deal (concerning technical effort, time etc.). So I assume that it could have been realized quite easily, without the necessity to check first how big is the demand.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by VictorParkerPIM »

Maybe it could work like the Auto Spell check, highlight or underline the note name if there is a duplicate.
Have the option to ignore it or change to something else.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by Tester »

VictorParkerPIM wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:16 pm Maybe it could work like the Auto Spell check, highlight or underline the note name if there is a duplicate.
Have the option to ignore it or change to something else.
Would be no problem for people like me. But I assume that the other side - the users who work a lot with duplicates - would not be happy: Whenever there is a duplicate they would be confronted with a highlighted or underlined name and they would have to react (at least by clicking on some ignore-command in order to remove the highlighting or underlining).

Unless at it is solved in the same way as for the Auto Spell check feature you mention: Some option to disable the "Auto Duplicate Recognition" feature (with the effect that the highlighting or underlining would not appear):

SC.jpg

Would be completely o.k. in my opinion. But this would anyway be a solution as I had it in mind: with checking/unchecking something somewhere in the settings. :wink:
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by VictorParkerPIM »

I think it was not clear what I meant, I meant ignore would be the default.
If you didn't do anything you would have a duplicate and changing the name would prevent the duplicate.
The highlight or underline would auto clear.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by Tester »

It's anyway a pure theoretical discussion when there is no intention to implement the feature. But I would just like to find out why I do not understand what you mean. :wink:
VictorParkerPIM wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:51 pm I meant ignore would be the default.
O.k. So by default no highlighting or underlining in case of a duplicate.
VictorParkerPIM wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:51 pm If you didn't do anything you would have a duplicate and changing the name would prevent the duplicate.
O.k. As general principle I understand it too.

But:
VictorParkerPIM wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:51 pm The highlight or underline would auto clear.
Here I have a problem. Where does this highlight or underline come from if "Ignore" is the default?

Perhaps we can illustrate it with a practical example:

Let's assume that a note called "Sunshine" already exists.

Now the user creates a new note choosing as name "Sunshine" a second time:

a) User "D" (who prefers duplicates and therefore does not want to be warned/informend about them) chose the identical name intentionally.

b) User "T" (like "Tester" :wink: ) (who does not want to have duplicates) chose the identical name as an error.

According with your concept: What will see and what will have to do user D respectively user T?
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by SilverSound »

Some more things to think about:

What happens when you use the find/replace function to bulk rename and it generates duplicates?
What happens when an auto name note generates a duplicate name?
Do the people who want this feature want duplicates ever?

I might* want this feature, but probably not.

For myself, if I was going to migrate to EPIM from my current cataloging software I'd need to be able to strictly forbid duplicates not just get a warning when they happened.

Overall I'm pretty happy with my current cataloging setup and I don't think I'd benefit by being able to move it over to EPIM.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by VictorParkerPIM »

Another approach

Ctrl+R:
Type Note Name:
Press Enter: If Note name is duplicate, it will say "Duplicate Name" on first line Highlighted .
Press Enter: If duplicate is OK
Type new name: If duplicate is not wanted.
It will repeat "Duplicate Name" on first line until it is not a duplicate.
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Re: Warning in case of identical note titles

Post by Tester »

VictorParkerPIM wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:56 am Another approach

Ctrl+R:
Type Note Name:
Press Enter: If Note name is duplicate, it will say "Duplicate Name" on first line Highlighted .
Press Enter: If duplicate is OK
Type new name: If duplicate is not wanted.
It will repeat "Duplicate Name" on first line until it is not a duplicate.
I think I understand what you mean. But the friends of duplicates won't be happy with this solution as it hinders their workflow requring an additional step.

That's the window after pressing Ctrl+R:

NI.jpg


- Case 1: The planned name "Sunshine" is no duplicate:
Ctrl+R --> The user types "Sunshine" instead of the highlighted "Give name automatically" --> he presses Enter (respectively clicks on OK).

- Case 2: The planned name "Sunshines" is a duplicate (and the user wants to have duplicates generally):
Ctrl + R --> The user types "Sunshine" instead of the highlighted "Give name automatically" --> he presses Enter (respectively clicks on OK) --> now for a second time a highlighted information appears, saying "Duplicate Name" (obviously by removing the word "Sunshine" in the first line) --> he has to press Enter (respectively to click on OK) for a second time.

I assume the friends of duplicates would be annoyed by this additional procedure. (And I would understand it.)

Perhaps (if technically feasable) it could be arranged in this way (though I would prefer an own pop-up-window telling me about the duplicate). But you forget that the friends of duplicates don't like to see (or hear) anything about duplicates when creating a note (= just the situation as it is now). - So once more applies exactly the same what I have already written several times: Such a feature will only be accepted if it can be enabled/disabled as an option. In the same way as it is established for the Auto Spell Check.
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