Why has the behavior of Overdue tasks changed?

[bigred]

In tasks grouped by due date, it used to be that a task with a completion date and time of, say, 11 a.m today would move from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group at 11 a.m. I found that behavior ideal because the appearance of the task in the OVERDUE group immediately drew my attention to the missed completion time. Sadly this is no longer true. The overdue task remains in the TODAY group until the end of the day, midnight, at which time it moves to the OVERDUE group.

I realize it can be argued that it is confusing to have a task move from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group in the middle of the day. The counter argument is that as soon as the task becomes overdue it needs attention, possibly immediately, and moving it to the OVERDUE group at the time it first becomes overdue makes it much easier to spot the missed deadline and take corrective action.

Please consider reverting to the previous behavior.

EssentialPIM Pro 11.7
Windows 11

[admin]

It has never worked the way you described. If you believe it did, please provide the EPIM version number when it was functioning as you described. Thank you!

[bigred]

It's a bit irritating to have you proclaim "It has never worked the way you described" without checking first. In the past it has indeed worked the way I described. I just demonstrated it on my other Windows 11 laptop which has not been updated from EssentialPIM Pro 11.5.3. I also know it for sure because I used to rely on this behavior to draw my attention to today's tasks for which the completion time has passed, that is until you made an unannounced change to EssentialPIM Pro and I missed several tasks which stayed in the TODAY group instead of moving to the OVERDUE group.

I only noticed the change in behavior of overdue tasks in the last few days and so I believe it must have occurred in a very recent update.

When you set out to verify and reverse this unannounced and unhelpful change, please note that there is one inaccuracy in my description of the previous desirable behavior of overdue tasks. You cannot actually watch the task jump from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group as the completion deadline passes. You have to move away from task view and back again. Personally I switch back and forth between tasks view and calendar view very frequently and so I never noticed that potential delay.

Here is a corrected version of the first paragraph of my first post:

In tasks grouped by due date, it used to be that a task with a completion date and time of, say, 11 a.m today would move from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group after 11 a.m. the first time you switched away from task view and back again. I found that behavior ideal because the appearance of the task in the OVERDUE group immediately drew my attention to the missed completion time. Sadly this is no longer true. The overdue task now remains in the TODAY group until the end of the day, midnight, at which time it moves to the OVERDUE group.

Once again I ask you to please consider reverting to the previous behavior.

[admin]

No need to check, as we know it shouldn't have worked the way you described. We tested the default behavior with EPIM 11.5.3, and it works exactly the same as in EPIM 11.7. In other words, we're unable to reproduce the behavior you described. If that's not the case for you, I'd ask you to record a short video demonstrating how it works on your end with EPIM 11.5.3. Thank you.

[bigred]

I am puzzled that you keep making comments like "It has never worked the way you described" and "No need to check, as we know it shouldn't have worked the way you described." And I am equally puzzled why you have never asked me to explain precisely why I found value in the feature which I used frequently and now sorely miss.

Putting that aside for now, I will be happy to demonstrate that my description of the behavior of overdue tasks in EssentialPIM Pro 11.5.3 and multiple previous versions is entirely accurate, as you requested. What I will show is that "In tasks grouped by due date, it used to be that a task with a completion date and time of, say, 11 a.m today would move from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group after 11 a.m. the first time you switched away from task view and back again."

For the demonstration, let's start with a single task displayed in task view set to group tasks by Due Date. Here is a screenshot:

The task is named "Demonstrate preferred behavior of overdue task," the START TIME is "Wed. 9/20/2023 8:00 AM" and the DUE TIME is "Wed. 9/20/2023 11:15 AM." THe current time is 11:13 a.m., two minutes before the completion deadline.

Three minutes later, at 11:16 a.m., the task is still not completed and the completion deadline has been missed:

The only change shown in task view is that the task's color is red instead of black.

At 11:21 a.m. we temporarily switch from task view to calendar view:

and then at 11:24 a.m. we switch back to task view to find that another change has occurred:

The task has now moved from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group.

The version of EssentialPIM Pro used in this demonstration is now displayed as 11.5.3:

The accuracy of my description of the behavior of tasks as their deadline passes in former versions of EssentialPIM Pro has been demonstrated.

If you follow the same steps in your version of EssentialPIM Pro 11.5.3, where does the difference from the above occur?

Would you now agree that as soon as the task becomes overdue it needs attention, possibly immediately, and moving it to the OVERDUE group at the first opportunity after it becomes overdue makes it much easier to spot the missed deadline and take corrective action?

If you believe that the overdue task should continue to be displayed in the TODAY group among whatever other tasks there may be for which the deadline has not yet passed, waiting for midnight when they would all move into the OVERDUE group, please explain why.

[admin]

Okay, so there's not only a date but also a time involved. If you had mentioned that earlier, I would have said it was a known issue that is scheduled to be fixed in the next minor update of EPIM.

[bigred]

So now you are actually accusing me of failing to mention that there is a time involved? That's preposterous.

Take another look at my first post, especially these two paragraphs (with references to the time issue now in bold to make it clear that I mentioned date and time repeatedly):

"In tasks grouped by due date, it used to be that a task with a completion date and time of, say, 11 a.m today would move from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group at 11 a.m. I found that behavior ideal because the appearance of the task in the OVERDUE group immediately drew my attention to the missed completion time. Sadly this is no longer true. The overdue task remains in the TODAY group until the end of the day, midnight, at which time it moves to the OVERDUE group.

I realize it can be argued that it is confusing to have a task move from the TODAY group to the OVERDUE group in the middle of the day. The counter argument is that as soon as the task becomes overdue it needs attention, possibly immediately, and moving it to the OVERDUE group at the time it first becomes overdue makes it much easier to spot the missed deadline and take corrective action."

What more could I have done to make it clear to you from the start that there is a time involved?

I think you owe me an apology for failing to admit that the fault is entirely yours and that you have been wasting my time.

[admin]

Frankly speaking, providing a shorter and more precise description of the issue would greatly assist us in addressing it effectively. We genuinely appreciate your feedback and understand the significance of resolving the matter promptly.

Rest assured, we are actively working on a fix, and you can expect it to be implemented in EPIM 11.7.1. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused and thank you for your patience.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to let us know.

[bigred]

Your 1st excuse was that I did not mention early enough that a time was involved, although everyone can see I mentioned a time repeatedly in paragraph #1 of post #1. Now you imply that I failed to provide a short, precise description of the issue, although my guess is that everyone else found paragraph #1 of post #1 to be just that.

My enthusiasm for EssentialPIM Pro is dwindling fast. Rest assured I am actively looking for an alternative.

[bigred]

The promised change "Tasks grouped by due date now belong to the correct groups" has not been implemented successfully in the update to version 11.7.1. Specifically, tasks for which the completion TIME has passed still display in the TODAY group instead of the OVERDUE group. Again I ask, please fix it.

[admin]

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention. We can confirm the problem and ensure that it will be addressed in the next minor update of EPIM.

[Jon]

If I may interject with my preference. There have been many times I have a task disappear because the time assigned to it has passed. On days when I have numerous tasks, it is very easy not to notice one gone missing (I use consolidated view grouped by due DATE, not time. The focus is on today with other headings collapsed). So for me, I rather like this new way. The task sticks around for the remainder of the day yet turns red to warn me at a glance.

Perhaps a setting for the user to choose the method that works best for them?

Thank you.

Jon

[admin]

Jon, the method you described will work as long as you only input the Due date and leave the Due time field for a task empty.

[Jon]

Yes, I know. But some tasks require times and it is those that can get overlooked when you are ten minutes behind schedule.

Jon

[Jon]

This is not a complaint. Just that I lived with the way it was and this possibility, not previously considered, offers an option for me. If I am the only user who feels this way, then I accept that the old behavior will be restored. Either way, this will not dissuade me from using EPIM. It is too valuable a tool.

Jon